(Italy – May 6, 2025) Against the backdrop of the death of Pope Francis, China-Vatican relations have once again become a focus of international attention. Since the two sides signed the “Provisional Agreement on the Appointment of Bishops” in 2018, the landmark diplomatic document has remained a crucial link in both the easing and complication of relations between the Vatican and China. The agreement aims to promote unity and legitimacy within the Catholic Church in China, while also sparking intense debates over religious freedom and the independence of the Church.
With the upcoming election of a new pope, future cooperation and challenges between China and the Vatican will be closely scrutinized by global public opinion. The leadership style of the late Pope Francis and his promotion of interreligious dialogue have made this agreement one of the most defining and controversial elements of his diplomatic legacy. It will also become one of the key foreign policy issues the next pontiff must address.
Pietro Piga, a journalist at the School of Journalism of the Catholic University of the Sacred Heart in Milan, explored the provisional agreement on bishop appointments, China’s religious freedom and the experiences of Catholics in China. On May 2, Dr. Bob Fu, founder of ChinaAid, was interviewed by Mr. Piga on topics including his personal faith journey, the origins and mission of the organization, Pope Francis’s impact on Catholics in China, and his views on the China -Vatican agreement.
The First Part: Dr. Bob Fu’s Personal Experience and Transformation of Faith
Pietro Piga: Mr Fu, it has been almost thirty years since your farewell to China. Do you remember on what occasion (when, where, why) you embraced the Christian religion?
Dr. Bob Fu: I embraced Christian faith in the aftermath of the 1989 Tiananmen Square protests in Beijing, China. At the time, I was a student at Liaocheng University, Shandong province, and had become a leader in the pro-democracy movement, organizing demonstrations and leading fellow students to Tiananmen Square.
The violent suppression of the protests by the CCP government deeply affected me, leading me to question the political system and the nature of humanity. During this period of despair, through the help of American missionaries who were teaching me English in my college, I read a biography of pastor Xi Shengmo, a 19th-century Chinese Christian convert who overcame personal struggles and dedicated his life to helping others. Inspired by this story, I dedicated my life to Christ, seeking hope and purpose beyond political activism, later that year in 1989. For more details about my testimony, you can refer readers to my memoir, God’s Double Agent (published in 8 languages) and this video.
Pietro Piga: Being converted to Christianity led you to found a “Bible school.” What led you to find it? When and where did you find it?
Dr. Bob Fu: Following my conversion in 1989, I became involved in the underground house church movement in China. I eventually established an underground Bible School in the suburbs of Beijing in 1995, which led to my arrest in May 1996 for “illegal evangelism” in Beijing while I was a full-time lecturer in English language at Beijing Party School of Chinese Communist Party and Beijing Administrative College, where I taught English to CCP leaders in Beijing city during the daytime. I was also an underground House Church pastor in the university area in China’s capital city, Beijing. After my release from two months’ imprisonment, my wife and I fled to Hong Kong due to the imminent danger of rearrest later in 1996. Three days before Hong Kong was handed over to China in 1997, President Bill Clinton made an executive decision by granting my wife, our 2-month-old son Daniel, and me as overseas refugees, and we landed in the United States on May 27, 1997, where I continued my advocacy for religious freedom. (Info at President Bush Center and Library link)
Pietro Piga: What was the role of this “Bible school” and what was its fate?
Dr. Bob Fu: The Bible School had trained more than two dozens of Chinese missionaries from multiple Chinese House Church networks from Tibet to Heilongjiang province, from Beijing to Anhui province. The school was discovered by the CCP security agents in early 1996 after the first class graduated and were commissioned to mission fields. Then my wife and I were arrested because of our leadership in the church and the Bible school in May 1996. The school was shut down by force by the CCP government.
Pietro Piga: What are your memories as a religious persecuted in China?
Dr. Bob Fu: As a persecuted Christian, I remember that the Chinese militaristic, atheistic Communist government would not allow religious freedom to its 1.3 billion citizens. Chinese citizens do not have the freedom to manifest their faith in public and are forbidden to practice their faith in their professions. It’s a total violation of both China’s own Constitution (Article 36) and International norms on religious freedom, such as the Universal Declaration on Human Rights and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (Article 18).
The Second Part: The Origin and Mission of ChinaAid Association
Pietro Piga: Mr Fu, 23 years ago, a few years after fleeing China, you founded ChinaAid. What activities has the organization been doing for more than 20 years?
Dr. Bob Fu: For over two decades, ChinaAid has been actively engaged in promoting religious freedom and the rule of law in China. Founded in 2002, ChinaAid is an organization headquartered in Midland, Texas. ChinaAid’s mission is encapsulated in its “3 E’s” approach: Expose, Encourage, and Equip.
Here is an overview of our key activities:
Exposing Human Rights Abuses – ChinaAid documents and publicizes instances of religious persecution and human rights violations in China. Since 2006, we have released annual reports detailing the Chinese Communist Party’s oppression of Christians and other faith communities. These reports are compiled from an extensive network of contacts within China.
Encouraging the Persecuted – The organization provides support to individuals and families affected by religious persecution. This includes financial assistance, legal aid, and spiritual encouragement to prisoners of conscience and their loved ones. ChinaAid also facilitates the rescue and resettlement of persecuted leaders and their families.
Equipping Leaders – ChinaAid offers training programs to human rights defenders, religious leaders, and community members. These programs focus on understanding and advocating for religious freedom and the rule of law, empowering individuals to defend their faith and rights.
Advocacy and International Engagement – ChinaAid actively engages with international bodies to advocate for religious freedom in China. ChinaAid has organized delegations to testify before the U.S. Congress and the European Union, and regularly briefs the U.S. State Department and members of Congress on the status of religious freedom in China.
Campaigns for Prisoners of Conscience – ChinaAid leads initiatives such as the “China 18” campaign, which highlights the cases of prisoners of conscience, including human rights lawyers, political activists, and underground church leaders. These campaigns aim to raise awareness and press for their release. In some circumstances, if some persecuted faithful and freedom fighters, including Christians and non-Christians, were under life threat, ChinaAid also engages in rescue work by helping over 500 people relocate from China to safer countries or locations such as the USA, Europe, and Asia countries. Through these multifaceted efforts, ChinaAid continues to advocate for the rights and freedoms of individuals facing persecution in China.
Pietro Piga: In just over twenty years, what goals has ChinaAid achieved and what goals does it want to achieve in the future?
Dr. Bob Fu: ChinaAid has successfully advocated for thousands of prisoners of conscience over the years. Their voices have been heard by the international community in church and diplomatic circles. Many of them were released, or had their prison sentences reduced, or were rescued.
ChinaAid has supported thousands of legal defense cases for the prisoners of faith and freedom advocates in China. Some death sentences were overturned after ChinaAid’s legal defense effort.
ChinaAid sponsored thousands of rule-of-law training sessions through which millions of Chinese faithful were empowered and enabled with legal conscientiousness and knowledge to file legal challenges against injustices they experienced.
ChinaAid provided millions of dollars of financial support to the prisoners, families of prisoners, and persecuted churches, as well as human rights defenders, with funding and material support such as audio and video Bibles and legal defense handbooks.
Pietro Piga: What difficulties does China Aid face in carrying out its activities and who, in some way, hinders the organization?
Dr. Bob Fu: The main challenges ChinaAid faces are the CCP security crackdown against freedom of information flow through its Internet firewall and digital censorship with technologies such as face recognition cameras and big data. CCP’s transnational repression efforts on US and European soil also pose a major threat.
In late 2020, my whole family had to be exiled from our own home in West Texas for 3 months because the CCP sent hundreds of Chinese thugs to besiege my house for months, harassing and threatening my life. I testified before Congress on this issue. These questions, however, concern the focus of the article, religious freedom in China and, therefore, the situation Catholic Christians experience in the nation.
The Third Part: The CCP’s Hostility toward Christians and the Reality of “Prison Theology”
Pietro Piga: There is a saying in China, which you picked up in an interview I read on the web, “If you want to be a faithful follower of Jesus Christ, the first course of theology you must take is prison theology.” I guess that still applies. What does it mean?
Dr. Bob Fu: It means Chinese Christians need to be always prepared to walk the path of the Cross of Christ’s suffering persecution in season and out of season, as Apostle Paul said. This is known as “theology of suffering” (sufferology). Be ready and prepared to be imprisoned for Christ; the Gospel has been a biblical norm for Chinese Christians. Rejoicing in the suffering of Christ is another aspect of Chinese Christian life.
Pietro Piga: It is expected that in a few years, China will be home to the largest Christian population in the world. How much has the religious community grown?
Dr. Bob Fu: It is reported (by scholars such as Dr Fenggang Yang, sociologist from Purdue University in the USA) that the number of Christians in China has grown at least 100-fold in the past 70 years under Communist control. From 1 million in 1949 to an estimated over 100 to 130 million Christians are in China today.
Pietro Piga: Has it been since Xi Jinping came to power that Catholic Christians have seen their view deteriorate? And, if so, what has Xi changed from his predecessors?
Dr. Bob Fu: Xi Jinping carried out the most hostile policing toward Christian faith and other religious minority groups since the dictator Chairman Mao in the 1960s. The central aim is to totally control and even erase true Christian faith in China.
Pietro Piga: I assume you are in contact with the Christian-religious community. What is their daily routine?
Dr. Bob Fu: Chinese Christians and members of other faith groups face persecution and even imprisonment on a daily basis — this is the reality. If they choose to practice their faith publicly, they must inform their families and church and prepare a backpack with some daily necessities, in case they are imprisoned for their beliefs. ChinaAid has documented many such stories. You can look up Missionary Chen Wensheng, he is one of the most recent examples in the past few years. He has not stopped sharing the gospel in the public square despite repeated arrests and detentions.
The Fourth Part: Exposing Crackdown on Faith and the “Sinicization” Movement
Pietro Piga: About the discussion on “Sinicization.” What does it consist of and does it affect some areas and not other areas.
Dr. Bob Fu: “Sinicization” means that religion must align with Communist ideology in areas such as theology revisions, church leadership, and rites of religious practices. Only those bishops or church leaders who openly pledge full allegiance to Xi Jinping’s thought and Communist doctrine can continue to survive.
The Fifth Part: Discussion on the Shortcomings of the China-Vatican Agreement
Pietro Piga: Despite the agreement between China and the Vatican, does the persecution still continue, or has the agreement slightly changed the situation? So, are persecution, arrests, imprisonment, disappearances, and the destruction of churches and crosses still ongoing?
Dr. Bob Fu: Yes, since the secret agreement with the Vatican was signed, the Chinese Communist Party has never stopped persecuting faithful Catholic leaders and believers in China. As of now, at least 10 Chinese Catholic bishops and priests remain imprisoned or missing. The destruction of churches is still ongoing.
Pietro Piga: So, does this agreement also have shortcomings that should be addressed to improve the situation?
Dr. Bob Fu: The flaws of the secret deal have already become evident, judging by the continued persecution of Chinese Christians and other believers (including Catholics). It has not stopped or reduced any persecution. It has done nothing to advance religious freedom in China.
Pietro Piga: Can you tell me a recent symbolic example that captures the issues and difficulties facing the Christian and Catholic communities, and thus illustrates Xi Jinping’s brutality?
Dr. Bob Fu: The case of Bishop Peter Shao Zhumin from the Diocese of Wenzhou is a recent symbolic example of the ongoing persecution of the Chinese Catholic Church. In February 2025, after Bishop Shao conducted a Mass without government approval, authorities fined the Sanjia Catholic Church 200,000 yuan (around $28,000 USD). (Bishop Shao has now been forcibly disappeared.) This incident highlights the CCP’s effort to suppress religious activity outside the state-sanctioned Chinese Patriotic Catholic Association (CPCA).
Pietro Piga: What consequences do you think the Pope’s death will have for Catholics in China?
Dr. Bob Fu: The impact on Chinese Catholics largely depends on the new pope’s approach toward China–Vatican–Taiwan relations. If the new pope adopts a more principled, pro-religious freedom and democratic stance like Pope John Paul II, it would greatly encourage persecuted Christians, including Catholics and Protestants in China. However, if the new pope continues the same weak approach toward the CCP’s policy on China, the current hardline persecution of Christians will only intensify. The Xi regime will absolutely believe it can get a pass to act with impunity, without accountability from the highest Catholic authority.
Pietro Piga: What did Pope Francis represent for the Catholic community in China — both the underground church and the church recognized by the country?
Dr. Bob Fu: Pope Francis represented a mixed and at times divided position. On one hand, for the CCP-controlled so-called Patriotic Catholic Church, Pope Francis was seen as a figure trying to bring unity and reconciliation between the underground and official churches. But for the vast majority of underground Catholics, given the ongoing relentless persecution and control of church personnel and leadership, and the CCP’s ideological efforts to forcibly unify religion under “Sinicization,” Pope Francis’s policy on China was seen as naive, compromising, and even a betrayal of the Catholic Church’s core doctrines and practices. This view has been echoed by Cardinal Joseph Zen from Hong Kong and many others, particularly in light of the Vatican’s absolute silence on the persecution of Chinese Christians and the suppression of peaceful protests in Hong Kong.
(Reported by Special Correspondent Gao Zhensai of ChinaAid)